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11-12-24 10:43 PM
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Main - General Chat - Ryujinx is dead (2)

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Hiryuu
Posted on 10-01-24 11:01 PM Link | ID: 978
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Unfortunate news from earlier today. It seems that the powers that be on the project were contacted by Nintendo in an agreement to end the emulator development. The Github and Download sections of the site are now closed and further Discord invites have been halted.

It is unknown what the terms of the deal were between them but it's yet another Switch emulator that has been ended similar to Yuzu before it earlier this year.


The Gobbler
Posted on 10-01-24 11:08 PM Link | ID: 979
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Wonder whats gonna happen with Switch stuff going forward
I know the sources for Yuzu and Ryujinx have been archived, but I'm sure plenty of people will be trying to create their own forks and such

What a pain...

Check out some of my websites!
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The Evil Vampony
Posted on 10-01-24 11:36 PM Link | ID: 981

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Nintendo's goal here is pretty obvious. They are sending a message to prospective emulator developers:

Nintendo said:
Do NOT emulate our new console, or we will have your fucking ass served deep fried on a plate of gold!!

And as much as I hate it, it makes sense. They really did lose a lot of sales on the Switch and it's games from people pirating games for Yuzu. I'm not a corporate suck-ass, but honestly I can't help but think trying to emulate a current gen console, before it's even in it's senior years is just a bad fucking idea.

ModernVintageGamer made a video discussing his thoughts on this and I honestly agree with his conclusion that Switch emulation is going to stagnate because of this, even though the source code still exists out there. It sucks to see, but I guess people will just have to be smarter next time.

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MacUser
Posted on 10-02-24 12:33 AM Link | ID: 983

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Nintendo is going to go after emulators for current hardware. That's just asking for it.

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Galeforce
Posted on 10-02-24 12:59 AM (rev. 2 of 10-02-24 01:02 AM by Galeforce) Link | ID: 985

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I still hold on to my firm opinion that, if Nintendo were to actually take game preservation seriously, there would be no justifiable reason for people to put on a pirate hat, and plunder their chests. But as it is, this is where we're at.

I do agree that releasing current-gen emulation to the public is a bad idea, though. Doing that, the developers are straight up begging to be C&D'd by Nintendo. And while this wasn't a typical C&D on Ryujinx, it effectively is in this case.

I do have to wonder though... people have been doing current gen emulating since the Wii U days. Why did Nintendo choose to crack down now, instead of then?

Hiryuu
Posted on 10-03-24 11:12 PM Link | ID: 1004
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Nintendo has no reason to want game preservation. If archive.org ever loses its DMCA exemption, Nintendo and others like them will be at their doorstep within the first hour demanding everything about them. All they care about is profit.


MacUser
Posted on 10-04-24 12:57 AM (rev. 2 of 10-04-24 01:00 AM by MacUser) Link | ID: 1007

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At the same time Palworld is clearly a bootleg, not a fangame. It's Pokemon Fortnite and it's charging full price for it. That's using Pokemon designs and gameplay elements to get money. Nintendo has every reason to strike them down. This isn't a fangame or a romhack situation. It sure as hell isn't about preservation either. That's what emulation is for and emulation is free. When the person is charging money for the roms or the emulator, that's usually what alerts companies like Nintendo to come after them. It's not like when someone comes up with a similar idea and wants to make an omage but it's still it's own thing. Palworld is Pokemon with guns.

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Hiryuu
Posted on 10-04-24 01:07 AM Link | ID: 1009
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Posted by MacUser
...Palworld is Pokemon with guns.


And Nexomon and others like it?


Galeforce
Posted on 10-04-24 01:10 AM Link | ID: 1010

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Posted by MacUser
That's what emulation is for and emulation is free. When the person is charging money for the roms or the emulator, that's usually what alerts companies like Nintendo to come after them.


That didn't stop Nintendo from going after Vimm.net. And, other websites like it. Though they probably went after these sites for a different reason.

thingsiplay
Posted on 10-04-24 11:44 PM Link | ID: 1021

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Posted by MacUser
At the same time Palworld is clearly a bootleg, not a fangame. ... That's using Pokemon designs and gameplay elements to get money. ... Palworld is Pokemon with guns.


No, so much wrong here. bootleg is basically a romhack and based on the original game, so clearly this is not what happened here. Palworld uses original monster designs and does not use any of existing designs from Pokemon. Proof is that Nintendo didn't do any copyright strike for stealing Pokemon designs.

The patent system for gameplay elements is borked and hinders innovation in the gaming industry. You should not celebrate that in my opinion. It is remain to see what actual patent infringement here is, because we don't know yet. And no, Palworld is not Pokemon with guns, its a complete different genre and has nothing to do with Pokemon.

MacUser
Posted on 10-05-24 02:54 AM Link | ID: 1022

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Posted by thingsiplay
Posted by MacUser
At the same time Palworld is clearly a bootleg, not a fangame. ... That's using Pokemon designs and gameplay elements to get money. ... Palworld is Pokemon with guns.


No, so much wrong here. bootleg is basically a romhack and based on the original game, so clearly this is not what happened here. Palworld uses original monster designs and does not use any of existing designs from Pokemon. Proof is that Nintendo didn't do any copyright strike for stealing Pokemon designs.

The patent system for gameplay elements is borked and hinders innovation in the gaming industry. You should not celebrate that in my opinion. It is remain to see what actual patent infringement here is, because we don't know yet. And no, Palworld is not Pokemon with guns, its a complete different genre and has nothing to do with Pokemon.


There's such a thing as bootleg merch, toys, clothing, ect. If Palworld were allowed to continue, you'd have knock off plushies ect.

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thingsiplay
Posted on 10-08-24 04:12 PM (rev. 2 of 10-08-24 04:14 PM by thingsiplay) Link | ID: 1057

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Posted by MacUser
There's such a thing as bootleg merch, toys, clothing, ect. If Palworld were allowed to continue, you'd have knock off plushies ect.


Hmm, I see. But the Palworlds are all their own designs. No Pokemon is bootlegged here. So Palworld would be okay to sell Palworld plushies. Otherwise Nintendo would have dropped a lawsuit about copyright, not about a patent infringement.

Posted by Hiryuu
Nintendo has no reason to want game preservation.


The thing is, no company is able to do proper game preservation without piracy. I'm a firm believer of this. Even the emulated games you can buy and play from Wii shop and in the Switch shop of older titles, the games are not really preserved. Sega and bunch of other companies sell bundles of games on many platforms, such as Steam, and yet those games are not really preserved. As long as a game is dependent on services and contracts, its not really in my opinion.

So in that sense, no company is really interested into preserving the games forever. This can only be achieved with communities, emulators and piracy.

Hiryuu
Posted on 10-08-24 04:19 PM Link | ID: 1058
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Well, sure. Further, if you have your games forever, how can they make money when the nostalgia cycle hits and they can make easy banks of 'remastered' ports, and the like?

Not to mention that we're getting to the point where SaaS is invading gaming as well. Physical media is dying and you're only in so much ownership of the software, or games, that you buy. People are getting pushed to do subscription services 'for a better price' in order to get more and more people away from it, among other things being tried and tested as the days and months progress.


Snowshoe
Posted on 10-08-24 10:28 PM Link | ID: 1064

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Posted by NinCollin
Wonder whats gonna happen with Switch stuff going forward
I know the sources for Yuzu and Ryujinx have been archived, but I'm sure plenty of people will be trying to create their own forks and such

What a pain...

Nintendo's strategy is to intimidate developers who actually have the time and knowledge to work on something like this, rather than go after every single fork. If any Switch emulator gains traction again and people coalesce around it, Nintendo will do the same thing. And it's not just Nintendo; Nicalis DMCA-struck a Cave Story decompilation project and it was more or less abandoned following this, despite source code being reuploaded.

It's just a clever form of brain-drain on the open source community. Companies are starting to catch on to the fact that they don't need to take it to the courts in order to shut down these projects. Even if it went to the courts, people tend to fold instantly due to legal costs and risk of astronomical copyright fines.


Hiryuu
Posted on 10-08-24 10:42 PM Link | ID: 1066
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Not all of them die though, at least. AM2R is a good example of it. Even though they got put to the axe by Ninty, the project is very much still alive years later. Granted, it's no longer done by the lead dev but it still exists.

It's a setback for sure but there is proven resilience with these things. I've seen it over a quarter century now and people will do their very best to take on these company juggernauts to their dying breath.


The Evil Vampony
Posted on 10-09-24 01:31 AM Link | ID: 1069

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Posted by Snowshoe
Nintendo's strategy is to intimidate developers who actually have the time and knowledge to work on something like this, rather than go after every single fork. If any Switch emulator gains traction again and people coalesce around it, Nintendo will do the same thing. And it's not just Nintendo; Nicalis DMCA-struck a Cave Story decompilation project and it was more or less abandoned following this, despite source code being reuploaded.

It's just a clever form of brain-drain on the open source community. Companies are starting to catch on to the fact that they don't need to take it to the courts in order to shut down these projects. Even if it went to the courts, people tend to fold instantly due to legal costs and risk of astronomical copyright fines.
There was a Cave Story decomp being worked on? Man, that would have been awesome. It sucks only being able to play that game at it's proper speed on an old freeware game stuck on Windows.

But you're right. DMCA striking anything you think will hurt your profits is just really fucking OP. Whoever is currently heading a project will probably just abandon ship immediately because fucking no one has the money to go fight it in court, much less the time and ambition, and even if you won, would you still want to continue working on it after all that? Sounds fucking exhausting.

Posted by Hiryuu
It's a setback for sure but there is proven resilience with these things. I've seen it over a quarter century now and people will do their very best to take on these company juggernauts to their dying breath.
Those who can endure and remain dedicated to a project even as this kind of shit flies I admire, but rarely do I see it happen. Only other example I'm aware of is some TGM related projects, and even then they never got DMCA'd, so much as Mihara got real mad when he found them, so the community just hide it away from public view and made it all hush hush, so now you just have to be in the know that it exists, and have the right connections to know who to ask. While I totally get the strategy, and it's easily one of the most effective methods to avoid trouble, I just can't help but feel that this approach just misses the mark sometimes.

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Hiryuu
Posted on 10-09-24 03:13 PM Link | ID: 1074
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Posted by Yuri Bacon
...so much as Mihara got real mad when he found them...


And now, twenty years later, they're doing their best to publicize TGM4 after stopping production of the old version of it with the thinly veiled threat of never completing the game if we continued to do what we were.

Nah, Heboris and the like weren't going anywhere. Meanwhile, the games themselves have gotten way better with or without ARIKA's help.


The Evil Vampony
Posted on 10-09-24 09:46 PM Link | ID: 1080

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Posted by Hiryuu
Posted by Yuri Bacon
...so much as Mihara got real mad when he found them...
And now, twenty years later, they're doing their best to publicize TGM4 after stopping production of the old version of it with the thinly veiled threat of never completing the game if we continued to do what we were.

Nah, Heboris and the like weren't going anywhere. Meanwhile, the games themselves have gotten way better with or without ARIKA's help.
Emulation and clones certainly helped TGM's popularity outside of Japan. I wouldn't have gotten into it if I hadn't downloaded a ROM of it and played it in MAME (well, I played the PSX conversion more than actually playing in MAME, but you get the idea). After all, I ain't paying hundreds to thousands of dollars to buy all the arcade gear I'd need to play it legit, including the arcade board of TGM itself, if I haven't had a chance to play it. There certainly aren't arcades near me, much less ones with a TGM cab (Dave & Busters is the best I get, and that's not really an arcade to me, certainly doesn't have TGM). I imagine that story is similar for basically everyone who's played the game outside of Japan before it's Arcade Archives release, and while I actually really like the AATGM releases (convenient, better latency than I usually get with default MAME on my desktop), they probably never would have thought that release worth it if it wasn't for piracy helping keep it available. It just feels evil for demonizing the community for doing what's worked when they wouldn't have even that much otherwise.

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Hiryuu
Posted on 10-09-24 10:14 PM Link | ID: 1081
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I am actually lucky enough to be near a retrocade that had a MAME cab. It was the very first time I would see a TGM1 cab, not quite in the flesh. Trying to find a cab legitimately is a fool's errand in the States, no matter what of the trilogy you're attempting to play. This same arcade had a Tengen Tetris cab, legit, and not this (and some other rare finds).

So no, I didn't ever expect to find a port of 1 and 2 on the Switch in the last year costing us single digits just to own. Obviously they've changed their tune which likely means that they want money again where they aren't making any. A lot of companies in Japan are changing their attitudes about the Western audiences in a lot of respect as of late...rollback netcode is another example of such a thing when they were originally staunchly opposed to anything like that.

Granted, Japan is quite xenophobic and quite egotistical so any progress in that vein is a stellar accomplishment indeed.


Red Soul
Posted on 11-09-24 06:44 AM Link | ID: 1313

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You cannot slay a hydra, as they say. Cut a head off, and two will sprout from the mangled remains.
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